Community
"Community with Kristina Bartold" is a podcast focused on helping entrepreneurs and small businesses grow their network, increase their impact using marketing techniques like social media, increase sales, and bring in their ideal client using their digital community.
This show will answer questions like how do I make more sales in my business, what should I post on social media, or how do I grow my following?
Join Kristina twice a week to learn how to grow your business and community!
Community
Overcoming The ‘Connection Crisis’ with Authentic Marketing feat. Alex Cattoni
Overcoming The ‘Connection Crisis’ with Authentic Marketing feat. Alex Cattoni
In this episode of Community, Kristina is joined by Alex Cattoni, founder of Copy Posse and an expert copy writer and marketer with over a decade of experience.
Together they are talking about why an authentic personal brand is essential to the success of your small business.
With more content being put out than ever before, busier schedules and AI, we’re in a connection crisis. People want to authentically connect with you, your brand, and your mission. Maybe your marketing output isn’t the problem, it's your authenticity.
If you’re looking to build a brand that stands out without losing your authenticity, this episode is your next step!
Connect with Alex:
Instagram
Website
YouTube
LinkedIn
PodMatch Automatically Matches Ideal Podcast Guests and Hosts For Interviews
For Your Information:
• Host your podcast on Buzzsprout!
• Text JOIN to 8550908-4688 for social media tips right to your phone
• Join our favourite scheduling platform Later
• FLODESK Affiliate Code | 50% off your first year!
Don’t forget to come say hi to us on Instagram @thesocialsnippet, join the Weekly Snippet or follow us on any social media platform!
Website . Instagram . Facebook . TikTok . Linkedin
Kristina (00:01.058)
Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of Community. I am so thrilled today because often I get to interview people who kind of come into my world and I am always just so surprised by how small the world is. Like, you know, you hear about someone one time and then all of sudden they're everywhere. And I have Alex Catone here who is the founder of the Copyposse and
Alex is one of these people. has been like a domino effect of everyone being like, you need to know Alex. You need to know Alex. think partially because we're both Canadian. but I'm just so excited to have Alex here cause she is an absolute pro. I spent a bunch of time watching her videos today and I was just so impressed. So Alex, welcome to the show.
Alex Cattoni (00:36.578)
Christina, thanks for having me. And I guess I'm doing something right with my marketing if you see me and hear about me everywhere.
Kristina (00:42.398)
Everywhere, everywhere, you're everywhere. And I love it. And what's so cool about like about you, I think, and your kind of story too, is that you're so authentic in the way that you come across. And I think when we're talking about social media, we're talking about branding, we talk about, you know, writing and all of those things. We're in a world right now where I think people are leaning away from authenticity when we need to be leaning more in. And so yeah, Alex, I'd love for you to give us the scoop on kind of how you got started and what led you here today.
Alex Cattoni (01:11.288)
my gosh, how I got started. I mean, I can give you kind of the short version of it, but I think like many, you know, young overachievers, I had dreams of being a high powered corporate lawyer, like the whole suit, the I object your honor, like all of it, you know. But then this little tug after I went to university in Edmonton, Alberta, got a bachelor of commerce degree with a major in business law. I thought, you know what, before I go to law school,
I am just going to travel a little bit, like get it out of my system, but I needed money. I couldn't just travel for free. So I was like, I need to find a job overseas. Literally like that was my thinking. And through a series of like, you know, happenstance, know, certain situations, I ended up finding out about this company called Mindvalley, which is today one of the world's leading publishers of personal growth products online.
and applied for a job knowing nothing about personal development, internet marketing. All I knew was like, it's in Malaysia, that sounds cool. They're gonna pay me a little bit, that sounds cool. Okay, let's go. That was back in 2008. By the time, well, it supposed to be a six month internship, ended up staying for three and a half years. By the time I left, I was the creative director. I actually quit for health reasons. I didn't know it at the time, but I was celiac and essentially poisoning myself every day. So was very, very ill.
Essentially thought, okay, I just need to come back to Canada. I go to the doctor figure out what the hell's going on with me. Found out I was celiac. I thought that's it. I could have stayed. I could have stayed in Malaysia. What's wrong? my gosh. I've given up this dream role as the creative director of this multi-million dollar company at age 26. I've ruined my life. But actually it was a huge opportunity and I decided I was going to start my business. Started consulting, freelancing, working behind the scenes with personal development brands, namely doing marketing and
Copywriting, you know, I creating offers, funnels, all completely behind the scenes. So anonymous, online. Nobody knew who I was. And then in 2019, I thought, you know, I have something to say about marketing. And why is it that when you Google copywriting and marketing on YouTube, it's just a bunch of bros that show up? Like I happen to know so many brilliant female marketers, like what's going on here? And so I started my YouTube channel and that was the start of me building what is today the copy posse.
Kristina (03:32.94)
Hmm. Well, tell us a little bit about the coffee potty. Like what do you guys do? I know like I know from friends, but I'd love for you to talk
Alex Cattoni (03:39.318)
Yeah, so the Copy Posse is an online education platform. I help freelancers and business owners, I think their businesses through messaging, essentially. So it's all messaging, marketing, using the power of words to get your message out there and, you know, bring in new customers, clients and build your business.
Kristina (03:56.216)
Love it. Well, I love too. It sounds like you've been kind of an OG in the space, right? Because it's like a lot of people, think, know, kind of around the pandemic or when they kind of started to get in there, but you were there kind of earlier and building funnels. But it kind of also doesn't feel like it was like an overnight success. It feels like this has been something you've been building for a long time.
Alex Cattoni (04:17.462)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they always say, right? It's 10 years and then overnight. And oftentimes, people will tell me, my gosh, you came out of nowhere. And what they don't know is, well, before I even started my YouTube channel, I was working behind the scenes for over eight years in marketing. And so had a ton of experience seeing everything going on behind the scenes from a marketing and copywriting perspective. But then even when I started my YouTube channel, it took me six months to reach 1,000 subscribers. So...
You know, I think oftentimes we look to other people online or we compare ourselves to other people online and we think somehow we're doing something wrong. And I remember feeling that way. thought, look at all these huge YouTube channels. How do they do it? I was like, God, I was happy when I got a couple of comments on a video and I almost gave up many times. But, you know, the YouTube gods favored me after, you know, my consistency after six months. And that's really when things started picking up.
Kristina (05:03.029)
Haha.
Kristina (05:14.264)
So what would you say to someone who's like in that season, right? Where they're maybe an expert in their niche or they're, you know, they have lots to say about what's going on in their niche and they're creating content but it doesn't feel like it's hitting. Whether that be written or YouTube or whatever, like what would you say to someone in that season?
Alex Cattoni (05:29.826)
Yeah, that's such a good question. I think this is more important now than ever. And when I tell people, like I miss my business when I had 20,000 Instagram followers and 10,000 YouTube subscribers. Like I actually missed my business at that phase. But everyone's so focused on the vanity metrics. And I think today more than ever, this idea of having, you a thousand true fans is...
Kristina (05:44.79)
Hmm.
Alex Cattoni (05:55.368)
so powerful. And so even though it's easy to look at someone with a huge following, what you probably don't know is they had maybe one or two videos go viral and their revenue doesn't necessarily grow at the same rate as views on a video or subscribers on a platform. so, you know, focus on you, what you're doing, what you care about, what lights you up, how you can serve people and don't pay attention to the metrics. I know it's hard. It's hard not to be obsessed with them.
But as long as your message is resonating with one, two, five, 10 people, if you're getting even just a little bit of that momentum, keep going and use it as an opportunity to get feedback. If you're like, well, actually I'm not getting that kind of feedback or maybe my message isn't landing. If you have any audience, it could be a hundred people on your Instagram or your Facebook or your YouTube, use it as an opportunity to get information and intel to figure out how you can pivot your messaging.
I always say this, like marketing is just one big giant experiment. You know, there's not this like playbook of like, you know, this or you don't, uh, like I make mistakes all the time. I was named marketer of the year by digital marketer in 2022. And I was like, like that, I was laughing at that because it makes it sound like I'm like this genius marketer. And I think I'm just good at like trying new things and figuring out what works.
Kristina (06:57.036)
Mm-hmm.
Kristina (07:16.062)
Mm-hmm. But with that must come a lot of failure. And I feel the exact same way, obviously, like with the social snippet, right? Like, there's so many things we try, nine of them don't work, one really, really works. And we have to just be like relentless and being able to just like get back up and like keep trying things. So like, how did you, how do you build that muscle? Like, how do you build that skill?
Alex Cattoni (07:24.333)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (07:36.59)
Yeah, and I mean, it's hard because you only ever see people's wins, right? And what I can say is like, everything that I've tried that hasn't worked, I never really consider it a failure or a total loss. It's more like, hmm, that didn't work. I mean, this happened to me in the fall. I don't know why I did this, but I had a proven launch model.
Kristina (07:42.2)
Mm-hmm.
Kristina (07:59.754)
Love it.
Alex Cattoni (08:01.068)
And I thought, you know what, I'm going to mix it up a little bit. I'm going to try to do this hybrid thing. I over-complicated it and it didn't work as well. And I was so mad at myself because my team worked harder to pull this new thing off versus just rinse and repeat with what worked. And, you know, at least now I can say, Hey, that, didn't work. But I think oftentimes we, don't talk about that. Like we move on, you know, on words and upwards. And so I think.
Kristina (08:08.064)
Mmm.
Alex Cattoni (08:27.688)
knowing that even the people who seem like they have it all figured out, usually it's through a massive process of trial and error that they have figured it
Kristina (08:35.948)
Totally. What are the things you see people make the most mistakes with? Like, you know, your own kind of marketing lens and kind of providing that training and that value to so many people. You must see some like things where you're like, I wish someone would just fix this or what are the big mistakes you see?
Alex Cattoni (08:51.372)
Yeah, that's a really good question. And I'm going to call myself out because these are the same mistakes I make. It's a tendency to look at what other people are doing and focus so much more on the format or the funnel and to think if I just do it like this, then it'll work for me. And I actually think the best thing you can do is just to go back to the basics. And my theme for this year is to simplify because I have a tendency
to overcomplicate things. And a friend of mine shared a quote with me the other day. He said, really, really smart people simplify complex things. Smart people complicate simple things. I was like, shit. I think I've just been a smart person, and I want to be a really, really smart person. And so really going back to who am I helping how?
Kristina (09:22.072)
Hmm.
Kristina (09:36.758)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (09:45.9)
What's the before and after? What's the A to B? What's the transformation that I'm helping them achieve? And then that can look so many different ways, but we have a tendency to, and I'm guilty of it. Like I reverse, you know, reverse engineer people's marketing and try to guess why they were doing things a certain way without really knowing why they were doing it or if it even worked. And then I go, why didn't I just do what I know works? And so the going back to the basics and focusing more on the
101 questions like who, how, why, like, who am I helping? How am I doing it? And why is this important versus, I need to have this like 19 million step complex funnel that most of the time will backfire after you spend tons of time building it and realize like I didn't need any of that.
Kristina (10:17.963)
Yah!
Kristina (10:30.688)
Yeah. No, I've definitely seen this even in our own business, but I've seen this with lots of clients too, where it's it's so complicated. And I'm like, have you ever asked anyone if they want this offering? have you ever like, and I've seen people, right? Like you see people who launch these like huge things that are so expensive to launch. They put big ad spend behind, but what would you say to someone who's like, you know, they have that kind of bigger vision, but they haven't been doing any of the basic things. Like what are the first steps of like trying to figure out a great offer?
Alex Cattoni (10:40.832)
So simple.
Alex Cattoni (10:59.554)
Yeah, and you nailed it. Validating your offer is so, so important. And every successful launch I've ever done, I sold it before I created it. And you hear a lot of people talk about this, and it doesn't mean you're going in completely blind. You're validating the offer first. And so what that means is getting intel. I do this months before I plan to do anything.
Kristina (11:10.296)
Hmm.
Alex Cattoni (11:24.022)
I included in emails, I post about it on social and I ask people, what's your biggest question around this? Like, is this something you're struggling with? Would you be interested in learning more about this? If so, what? Like, how are you hung up? What's happening? And all of that is so brilliant. Like I love open-ended questions. It gives you in your ideal customer's voice exactly what they're getting hung up on. But of course you can also do like some sort of survey or poll to your list as well, which is great once you have that, you know, subset of
of data points to start with. And so, you start by validating the offer that way. And then I start creating some social content about it. I start talking about it and I kind of gauge, are people responding to this well? Are they asking more questions? Are they being pulled deeper in or does it seem to be going over their head? And that's how I kind of build my runway before I ever spend a ton of time or money creating any sort of product or offer sales page or anything like that.
Kristina (11:56.077)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (12:23.222)
And then once we have a really kind of good feel for like, okay, this is what people want. Then we go into the process of outlining and structuring what it looks like, but without creating it, then we go into the marketing of it. So I know that if, you know, let's say 10 people bought, I might be like, you know what? Not worth it. Not worth for me to then go do this whole thing. I'd rather just refund those people and figure out where I missed the mark.
Kristina (12:33.912)
Mmm.
Alex Cattoni (12:50.414)
So there's a lot of things that you can do before you ever invest a ton of time into it. And when I did my first launch in 2020, it was exactly that. I had a very small YouTube channel at the time. I had built a teeny tiny email list on the thank you page of that email list signup. I had nothing to sell. So I just said, hey, will you answer some questions for me? And I had a little type form right there on the page that just asked them what their biggest challenges were when it came to copywriting.
Kristina (12:50.519)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (13:16.186)
I was trying to gauge if my audience was more business owners or if it was more like people who wanted to be freelance copywriters. I had all these questions. Once I got that data, that became the foundation for the marketing of my first program and felt effortless because there was so much buy-in from the community after completing that survey.
Kristina (13:35.064)
And that's such a great way to do it from a messaging perspective too. I don't need to validate this for you, but like such a great way to do it because you're actually using the language that they're giving you, right? Like they're telling you like these are my key problems. And this is actually like where I see a lot of offers go wrong is that people will, like I had someone in there like, I'm gonna do this like, you know, 21 day challenge to teach people how to do this. And I'm like, if those people are so busy, like do we think 21 days is like something they're gonna invest in?
Alex Cattoni (13:43.63)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (14:00.078)
Right?
Kristina (14:00.752)
you know, that probably seems overwhelming for them, right? Well, what about a one day challenge or three day, like, you know, different things like that, but we're not actually like hearing any of the information from our ideal clients. So we're not able to actually put all the kind of offers together.
Alex Cattoni (14:13.11)
Yeah, that's such a good point. Actually, that's something that we're noticing happening is 21 day challenges used to used to be more attractive, I guess you could say. And then it was like a 10 day challenge, a five day challenge. Now more than ever, time is one of the time and money are always the two biggest objections in marketing. But I feel like time is now almost outweighing the money. It's like
Kristina (14:25.036)
and
Kristina (14:38.903)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (14:39.886)
It's not about the money. just don't have the time to commit X number of days to this experience or you know, lot of people are asking questions. Well, how long is it going to take me every single week to be able to consume this? And so some of the changes that we're making behind the scenes in my business right now is how can we make it easier for people to consume content to get the value without needing to say sit and watch a 90 minute training every week? And so, you we don't have all the answers yet, but that's a big one. Time is a huge objection right now.
Kristina (15:07.32)
And how for you, like when you're thinking about like time for like, you know, the projects you work on or some of your own launches, like what are some like creative ways that people can kind of dwindle the time down for people?
Alex Cattoni (15:20.142)
Yeah. So some of the things we're playing around with is, uh, instead of doing longer video trainings, doing a series of mini trainings. Cause the kind of the subconscious, um, if I tell you there's 90 minutes of training, know, you think I have to be able to sit down and carve out 90 minutes in my week and very few people have 90 minutes just laying around and I'm having to do. then it's like 20 minutes to get set up 20, whatever. Right. Um, so, you know, creating content in smaller bite sized forms.
Also in some of my higher level programs, like my membership and my mastermind, we've actually dropped the number of pre-recorded, sorry, recorded sessions there are in a month and instead went, well, what would it look like to have only, let's say, two trainings a month that are more content heavy, where there is a replay that people would really want to watch the replay of versus more connection calls or accountability calls or ways that people can support one another.
Kristina (16:17.59)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (16:20.286)
to get what they need done. Because the thing that a lot of people, this is like the old mentality and I'm still myself having to reprogram my brain around this is that more content does not equal more value. And especially now content in its cheapest form, know, words, videos, images, it's cheap. It's so cheap because anyone can now crank it out on AI. so boasting that you have like
Kristina (16:32.598)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (16:46.454)
A bajillion bonuses that are going to be a million hours of content, which used to really create what they called the thud factor in marketing, where I was like, wow, look at all this value I'm getting. Now it's almost like the opposite effect of like, ugh. So when I'm thinking about bonuses to include with my content, I'm no longer thinking about how can I pack in more time consuming stuff and instead pack in more time saving stuff like templates, checklists, anything that's going to actually help.
Kristina (16:57.559)
Yep.
Kristina (17:12.536)
So.
Alex Cattoni (17:14.953)
shorten time instead of take more of their time.
Kristina (17:18.936)
And what do you think Alex, and just because I know you have like a wildly successful business, you're doing lots of really cool things. Something I notice is that like we have a membership as well and something we have really leaned into, because we used to have like put modules in there. We'd be like, watch this module, like watch this module, watch this module. We did this, we recorded this. People are there for us. They want like the one-on-one, they want the group coaching, they want that kind of thing. And I've really like...
I really kind of underestimated that because I'm kind of like, want to hear me talk about things. Like probably the listeners of this podcast, hopefully, but like, but, it's, it's interesting. Like, are you finding that live touch, like that personal touch, something that you're integrating more into your business?
Alex Cattoni (17:52.302)
Great. Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (18:02.498)
Yeah, definitely. think, and this is the tricky part, right? Like as marketers, we are sort of in this interesting place where we're reprogramming our minds to be like, okay, more value, more content is not equal to more value. But what's kind of tricky is a lot of our customers still haven't really made that shift because what they think they want is more content. But I can tell you that over overloading of content and feeling overwhelmed and feeling
Kristina (18:24.929)
Hmm.
Alex Cattoni (18:30.894)
behind and not able to keep up with the content is the number one reason people leave my membership. So it's catch 22. Like you want more content and we've had people literally in the same survey say, where do you feel like we're like, you know, where you could use more support, more calls, more content, more value, you know, and then why did you leave too much content? I couldn't, it was like, wait, what? And I think it's like, we're all just kind of in this space right now of like, we feel like, do we pay?
Kristina (18:35.734)
Yes, totally.
Kristina (18:50.424)
Ugh.
Alex Cattoni (19:01.454)
Should we be paying for less content? And the story I tell when we are talking about that is like, I hired a nutrition coach over the last six months, literally her only job was to send me check-ins on WhatsApp every day and say like, how are we doing with our macros?
Kristina (19:20.151)
Hmm.
Alex Cattoni (19:20.596)
she didn't tell me anything. I mean, I learned a lot, but it's not like she was dropping, like videos for me to have to watch. And to be honest, if I knew signing up for it, that that's what it would be, I would have said no, because I'm like, I'm overloaded. I'm a busy entrepreneur. Don't make me hop on another zoom call, watch a video, do anything. And it was like, no worries. All we're gonna be doing is just doing a little bit of messaging on WhatsApp. And that was the big clue in for me where I'm like, my god, I I have been overloading my people with content, knowing that
Kristina (19:29.388)
Yeah. Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (19:49.772)
that's what they initially want. They'll join for the value, but they'll stay for the community. And so it's finding that sweet spot between giving them what they need in order to get quick wins and quick results, but then knowing that a lot of it is just repetition and implementation and then getting the accountability and support and they'll stay for that like group coaching like you're saying.
Kristina (19:55.862)
Yes.
Kristina (20:10.302)
Mm-hmm. It's so interesting because even with our membership, we give like templates monthly and we do like sounds on Instagram, like trending sounds. I'm like, where are these templates ladies? I have not seen anybody post any of these stuff, but it's fine. But people are just like busy and they're doing lots of things and they're getting tons of value in other ways. And so it's just interesting as we're all building these programs, like actually figuring out like what people need. And I love what you said about staying for the community, like, cause that's actually like really the secret sauce to I think everything, but.
Alex Cattoni (20:22.488)
Right.
Kristina (20:38.944)
to like memberships and really growing your business. What has been for you Alex in running a membership? And I know you also, I think you run like a mastermind as well and you do like lots of really cool stuff that involve community. What has been key for you in cultivating?
Alex Cattoni (20:41.919)
my gosh.
Alex Cattoni (20:53.6)
Yeah, I honestly think it has been and this is hard for me like again, not showing up with like a presentation every time we meet but instead creating more of that. Like, I call it uncomfortable, but holding space for like getting on a call and being like, so how can I support you? I don't know. Immediately we're like, it's okay, I'm fine. Well, actually.
Kristina (21:06.968)
Mmm.
Alex Cattoni (21:16.974)
and, that's really how it's been. mean, we initially, we, recently in my mastermind actually implemented a WhatsApp group. And so we dropped one call a month in, and instead we're like, you're going to have a WhatsApp group. So instead of you having to wait a whole month to get on like a coaching call with me. You can just put it in WhatsApp and the conversations are awesome. And they're getting real time support the second they ask for it. And.
Kristina (21:25.112)
Mm.
Kristina (21:38.357)
Hmm.
Alex Cattoni (21:45.484)
they don't need to worry about one more call that they have to listen to a replay of. And so these are all the questions I'm asking myself is like, you know, and I get as business owners, it's like boundaries and I don't have time for that. And the answer I honestly think is less is more as long as you're making sure that you're implementing a supportive kind of feedback loop. And what people want right now is connection because I talked about this earlier this year on a big masterclass I hosted that right now we are in a connection crisis.
Kristina (22:13.304)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (22:13.332)
anybody can go online and like, you you mentioned the templates, anybody can go online and you know, go onto Instagram and see that now there's a million other quote unquote social media managers who are giving you templates. And so we get bombarded with like, I don't know, like which one's the right one. It's like so much and what we really want is just to like have a chat with a friend. And that's something that AI can never replicate in the way that we can as humans who know exactly what you're going through in your business. And so the challenge I would
Kristina (22:24.546)
Mm-hmm.
Kristina (22:33.302)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (22:42.954)
I would kind of give to anyone listening to this is resisting the urge to think that you have to create more, do more, show up more, and instead ask yourself, how can I create more connection, which actually might mean less work for you? And that is truly, I think, where marketing is shifting to.
Kristina (22:55.095)
Mm-hmm.
Kristina (22:59.134)
Mm-hmm. I love that. totally agree, especially on the community connection piece with AI. It's like people are using AI in like so many awesome ways and like I use it like there's lots of really like cool ways to use it. But it's never going to take away from the way that we're able to connect with one another. And so so how do we actually leverage it for good and like to make impact? How would you say in terms of I know personal branding is something that's really important to you and like I would just watch your YouTube video where you talked about like, you know, why personal brand right now?
Alex Cattoni (23:07.054)
Totally.
Kristina (23:27.755)
What do you think personal branding looks like in the age of AI?
Alex Cattoni (23:30.86)
Yeah, really a great question. and, you know, this is just part of the conversation of the evolution of marketing. You know, back when I started freelance copywriting, personal branding wasn't really a thing. And that's because I knew so many businesses who literally were making millions of dollars by just creating an, an offer.
like an info product of sorts around a topic driving ads to it with a pen name, no real images, stock photos, you know, the classic old VSL white background, black text, red letters, you know, like it looked terrible. And it was like, people still bought. and that was wild. And then everyone who worked behind the scenes in those businesses like me didn't need to have.
Kristina (23:57.324)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kristina (24:13.805)
Yep.
Alex Cattoni (24:20.522)
any sort of a online presence or profile because I didn't need to convince anybody that I was real. Well, times have changed. And so as much as I don't think, especially as a service provider, I think the big shift there is, listen, I know we tend to think personal branding means that you want to go the one-to-many route and you want to create courses or you want to be a creator or an influencer or a guru, and that's not...
Kristina (24:25.953)
Yeah
Alex Cattoni (24:48.878)
what personal branding is. To me, personal branding is really showing up in a way that, I hate to say it, but it proves your authenticity in a way that is really, really important right now because people want to know who you are even more than what you do as a business owner. And so to me, again, personal branding, let's say you're a copywriter or you're a coach or you're a VA or you have some sort of a service-based business.
Kristina (25:01.624)
Mm-hmm.
Kristina (25:07.98)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (25:16.556)
and you've been able to grow your business really effectively through just one-on-one relationships and referrals, that's great. Good for you, that's how I built my business. But now more than ever, I think when someone does meet somebody online and they're weighing options, do I work with this business owner or this business owner, while you can't necessarily track this, I know almost with certainty that they're going to LinkedIn or Instagram and they don't...
see that you're trying to be an expert per se, but they want to see that you're a real person. And so I talk a lot about the power of personal branding, which is more just showing up so people know who you are and what you care about and that you share similar values. You don't have to show up as the expert. You just have to show up.
Kristina (25:47.298)
Totally.
Kristina (25:59.8)
Yes, I I love that. And I think there's that like messy action piece there, right? Where it's like just consistently showing up, coming and like talking about like your niche or whatever. I'm curious for you, Alex, because I know you're a little omnipresent. You're kind of like a little, you're kind of everywhere. You're like giving Alex Hermosia a run for his money. One nose strip away. He is, he is.
Alex Cattoni (26:13.506)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (26:19.37)
I that, thank you. I hope he's scared a little.
Kristina (26:25.586)
curious for you, like, is there a platform or like a space online right now where you think building a personal brand is like easiest or most impactful or I know it's different for everyone because I'm kind of like, my opinion on it is always kind like go to the platform you like being on and where you feel like you can be most successful. But is there somewhere right now where you're like, there's a rise happening?
Alex Cattoni (26:41.046)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (26:46.286)
I mean, I do think there's a lot of opportunity on LinkedIn right now, just when you purely look at the numbers. And if you are a business owner or aspiring business owner whose ideal clients are people who hang out on LinkedIn, I think LinkedIn is kind of a great place for that. I also find platforms like LinkedIn and YouTube as well, they're just more predictable to me.
You know, YouTube is a great platform if you are looking to sort of become more of that educational creator. Although, you know, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of other types of channels that aren't like expert educators, but are more vlogs and things like that. I think the monetization path there looks a little bit different because at that point you are sort of building for eyeballs to then be sponsored or to make, you know, AdSense revenue.
But it can be a really great way to build an audience and it's a search engine. So I really like that. Like it's predictable. I get how it works. LinkedIn feels still like it's, it's a fair, it's like fair play. It's kind of like, I get how it works, you know, and there's, they're bringing in new features and I like LinkedIn still though. I'm an Instagram girl. You know, I'm a millennial. That's where I like to hang out. That's where I DM my people.
Kristina (27:49.687)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (28:08.11)
And so I kind of also struggle with that a little bit because there's a part of me that like hates Metta. And then there's this other part of me that's like, but I like it like that. Like I get the platform. feels familiar. You know, TikTok feels like kind of an unknown right now, although I do love the creators on TikTok. Um, and so I don't really have an answer other than don't let not choosing or feeling like there's a right one, hold you back from getting started because you know, you mentioned I'm omnipresent. I.
Kristina (28:08.141)
Yeah.
Kristina (28:22.829)
Yeah.
Alex Cattoni (28:37.12)
repurpose the crap out of everything. So I actually don't even really consider myself to be someone who's on LinkedIn. And I still to this day have people say, I found you on LinkedIn. And it's because my team repurposes my content there. Like if you want to get me, I'm on Instagram. That's where I hang out.
Kristina (28:49.868)
Right.
Yeah, yeah, okay, that's good to know. good to know. Because it's interesting because I think, especially when people like yourself, know, you have a larger like implements in terms of following and like you because you've been at it for so long. And so it's easy to think like, they've got community everywhere. And like, you know, I'm for me, I'm like, you probably don't have community if you're not checking your DMs, or you're not like having conversations with people, you know. But it's also a great way for people, the omnipresence is a great way for people to just get those eyeballs on you. And there is that like authority, I know you likely agree that like,
Maybe not, I probably shouldn't have said that, like, that like, when people see you more and more and more, it's that trust factor, right? Where it's like, I see her everywhere. Like you Alex, I'm like, this woman's everywhere. I now trust her, you can sell me anything, right? it's, you on. But yeah, it's a great way to kind of see like, you know, for people to see you in different lights.
Alex Cattoni (29:25.794)
Yes. Totally.
Alex Cattoni (29:33.356)
Yeah. Ooh.
you
Alex Cattoni (29:44.622)
I 100 % agree. And here's the thing, everyone will tell you something different. Some people say, pick one platform and go deep on that. And I do agree with that to a certain extent. But also, the marginal effort that it takes to simply repurpose, you should at least be doing that. Because I find that while you might not necessarily have the time or resources, let's say, to dedicate to checking your DMs across all platforms, if you are in fact, you know,
getting clients that way, you'll make the time. You'll make the time, you'll hire a VA who can at least help escalate potential clients and things like that. DM conversations are one of the best places right now for you to be hanging out. There are so many lurkers. I know we tend to look at engagement and to be honest, I have completely stopped looking at how many likes or views a story gets and instead I'm looking at
how many comments and conversations am I getting? Because that's really when you're getting people to take action and a micro conversion that we pay a lot of attention to because it's an indicator of a future sale, right? Now, especially when people can navigate online and never click anything. And it used to be like back in the day where people had to click. was like everything was a trackable click to a certain extent.
Kristina (30:56.214)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Cattoni (31:09.378)
with an ad to a landing page, to a sale, and it all usually happened within a much shorter window than it's happening now. But what's happening now is there's this whole messy web of touch points that are happening between someone first finding you and then even maybe sending you a message or replying to an email or taking that next step with you. Everything that's happening in between, you have no way of identifying them, but you know they're there. And so I can't tell you how many of my students have said to me,
my God, I got this client on LinkedIn and I've never heard of them before, but I guess they've been looking at my stuff even though I've never seen them like anything. It's like people are there and they are watching.
Kristina (31:50.584)
Mm-hmm. That is such an amazing point because I completely agree. I always say that where I had a real one time and I think that got like a thousand views and I was like so bummed about it. I was like, oh, that was a masterpiece. And then I got three clients from it. I'm like, oh, worth it.
Alex Cattoni (32:03.662)
Yeah. All day long. If you could replicate that every reel, you would be like laughing, you know, and who cares about the metrics? And that's, that's again, I laugh every time I see marketing that's like go viral. Like, hello, I've gone viral. It's actually kind of shitty. like, unless it's going viral in your exact ideal customer base, which it probably isn't. it's literally like, it's like you're screaming in another direction.
Kristina (32:06.444)
Perfect.
Kristina (32:19.276)
That's so horrible. I mean, you know, me too.
Kristina (32:27.98)
No, it's not.
Alex Cattoni (32:33.228)
and it's drowning out the people who are actually engaging with your content. And so like, just stop caring about the metrics and instead care about making sure you're showing up. And again, it doesn't have to be every day. Like, yes, if you create every day, you're likely to gain a little bit more momentum faster. But I also understand that we're all so busy and many of us are trying to run our social media while also running our lives and our children's lives and our family's lives and our...
freaking everything, right? And so it's like, don't let it overwhelm you. don't, don't let that stop you from getting started. Because then you'd be like, if I only started a year ago, I could have been posting once a week, that would have felt more doable than like, having to post every day, like so and so or whatever.
Kristina (33:19.458)
Yes. my gosh, Alex, I love that. I could talk to you all day. like, yeah, this was so insightful. And I think we are so like-minded on so many things, but I just think it's so important for people to hear how, like, especially because of the success you've seen online, like that it didn't happen in one day, but also that consistent effort, that consistent trying is just so amazing. And so thank you so much for sharing that with my audience. And I would love for you to tell people like how they can get ahold of you, how they can, Instagram is how, but how they can get ahold of you and how they might be able to work with you.
Alex Cattoni (33:49.826)
Yeah, so you can find me on YouTube. It's just my name, Alex Katoni. I'm also on Instagram, either at Alex Katoni, which is my personal brand, or Copyposse, which is my brand. And yeah, I love always to hear from everyone. So shoot me a DM and let me know that you were listening.
Kristina (34:07.992)
Well, I will put all that in the show notes and everyone please go check Alex out. Give her a follow. Let us know what resonated. I think there's tons, tons of things you can take action on from this episode. Alex, thanks so much for your time and thanks so much to everyone who was listening.
Alex Cattoni (34:20.834)
Thanks.
